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∞ INDRA ∞ Interior Natural Desert Reclamation and Afforestation projects
Mankind can control the weather! |
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INDRA Publicity letter feedback |
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∞ INDRA ∞ Interior Natural Desert Reclamation and Afforestation projects
Mankind can control the weather! |
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INDRA Publicity letter feedback |
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Dear Dr. Henderson,
I found
your website very interesting. It is certainly an ambitious
project, with the potential to change the face of the planet, and
possibly to improve the lives of billions of people. I am certainly
not an expert on the technology you propose to use, but it sounds
interesting and may be feasible.
My
primary concerns involve the unintended ecological and environmental
consequences of such a project. I do not see how this project will
increase biodiversity. It may do so locally, but that will probably
be by allowing exotic species to invade new areas that have become
habitable for them by increased water availability. The overall
effect on biodiversity seems more likely to be the decline and
probable extinction of species in arid regions as these regions are
humidified and fragmented, with the invasion of exotic species of
plants, as well as exotic predators and diseases to which the local
flora and fauna are not adapted. The arid and semi-arid regions of
the world include many of the remaining wild areas of the planet and
are an important reservoir of biodiversity.
The
project will potentially increase the primary productivity of plants
in the areas with increased precipitation, but this is likely to
decrease the diversity native species, while increasing the
abundance of invasive exotic species that were not previously found
in the area.
Another
major concern is the long-distance transport of invasive aquatic and
terrestrial species by means of the water transport system. An
extensive implementation of this system would certainly alter the
distribution of many species, and have a huge impact on gene-flow
between populations. Again, there would be species that become more
abundant, some of which would certainly be considered pests, and
also species that become less abundant or even go extinct.
A small
pilot project as proof of principle would be interesting, but a
major implementation will require extensive environmental and social
impact analysis.
Best
wishes,
Name withheld by request.
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Dr. ...:
I understand and appreciate your
concerns, and I greatly appreciate you thoughts as to the potential
benefits of an INDRA project. Your response, as a world renowned
expert is extremely helpful, thank you.
I have considered some of these
issues, especially as they relate to the potential impacts on
transit way ecologies. My idea is that a significant degree of
protection could be provided by a buffering riparian zone, which
would in-turn also supply extensive habitat for a very diverse set
of plant, reptile, insect, and small mammal species. Especially
those species that are under stress from marsh die-backs due to
sealevel and tidal changes. A large part of the evaporation plan
involves the establishment of wetlands along the transit ways.
These new wetlands would act as oasis for migratory birds, flying
insects, and other migratory animals, thereby decreasing stresses
introduced by large tracts of cultivated and arid land.
However, there is a central
theme that I am imposing on my understanding of bio-diversity, which
is that habitat is most significant as a species incubator, and that
some species are more significant than others to life's fundamental
goal of continued existence. For example a greater hydrological
balance would impact the current evolutionary paths of those
species which have hung on, or even flourished in arid areas. New
evolutionary paths would begin, new and more plentiful sources of
sustenance would engender greater diversity over generations. The
issue of predation is of course the wild card, and would undoubtedly
require planning and management.
In short it is my position that
by re-branding these habitats as weather control tools we may be
able to win over small farmers as bio-diversity allies, with managed
average rainfall over time. I agree that the mobility of species
across ecosystems is a large concern and steps will be required to
minimize negative impacts. However, the plan is to create sort of
new Eden's in the deserts, wherein the populations would be
somewhat isolated and in the long-term these ecosystems will evolve
and engender new species development at rates unseen in human
history.
Finally I will be the first to
admit that as an engineer, the biological and environmental aspects
of this project are sort of paint by the numbers, and I will depend
upon the generosity of biologist and environmental scientists like
you for guidance. To that end I would like to add your name to a
growing list of top scientists who support the INDRA concept. And
I would like to include our communication in our feedback section,
please let me know if this is a problem.
Once again thank you for your
time and support.
Gare Henderson
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Hey Gare,
Thanks for bringing your project to my attention. I have never
encountered the idea before, and it is incredibly interesting.
Certainly, if viable, it is a bold and innovative way to try and
combat the lack of water in arid areas.
But I have a few questions about it:
1. Has it ever been tried before? If so, where, and how successful
is it?
2. It says it would be affordable, but I just can't see how a)
digging on such an industrial scale and so very much and; b)
desalination and system maintenance which, if your project becomes
as big as you want it to, would be enormous; could lead to a cheap,
or even manageable expense. Seems to me that if it were such an
easy option, then it would have been talked about a long time ago.
Now I know that to achieve major changes in from our current state
of affairs there needs to be huge investment in these kinds of
things, but on the scale that you are proposing, the cost would be
astronomical. And you say you would cover the extra energy needs
through renewable energy sources, which is incredibly admirable and
exactly what you should do, but, having bought a hell of a lot of
them myself, they aren't cheap, even when bought in bulk, on this
scale, you would be looking at millions of dollars worth of solar
panels to produce enough electricity to fuel this many outlets.
Even so, I'm going to show your ideas to a couple of friends of
mine, who are more skilled at the science of this sort of stuff, and
see what they think of it.
And, (I realize this is incredibly prudish of me), but I get quite a
lot of these sorts of things, and I really am grateful for people
who show innovation, but when you say "support" are you looking for
financial backing, or just public and PR backing?
But I really am very interested, and thank you again for showing it
me!
Stefan R
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Stefan:
Thanks for your
questions...questions are what I need to get this project outside of
the limits of my experience. Let me take a stab at what you've
asked.
1. The history of weather
control that my research has uncovered has been limited to various
religious schemes, rain dances and the like, and a few governmental
cloud seeding efforts. Many of these efforts, including some used
by the US military in Vietnam, have been of limited effectiveness.
However, these efforts have focused upon converting natural humidity
into rain, whereas the INDRA project proposed to change the amount
of humidity available for natural and enhanced rain processes. Of
course the affect upon local evaporation is always a factor in the
design of dams, and reservoirs. I found a few resources on the web
that show how the effects of evaporation must be considered when
determining how much water needs to be released from a dam or
reservoir for a particular upstream water commitment. What seems
to be lacking is the research to quantify the effects of evaporation
on a given set of environmental conditions.
2. This type of project implies
a tremendous sacrifice from public sources, this is
un-questionable. Not only the initial construction and maintenance
of the transits, wetlands, and desalination plants...but also the
tremendous power requirements of moving water up the tremendous
grades that typify most of the worlds deserts. However, these
costs pale when compared to the societal costs of the "angry
planet", unpredictable weather, dangerous weather, and inadequate
rainfall on the municipal budgets, and individual weather related
expenses. A colorful anecdote, that any big city commuter will
relate to is the tremendous commerce that an unpredicted rainfall
places upon the populace...primarily in cleaning bills and the costs
of cheap umbrellas purchased at the subway exits. These costs when
combined with the opportunity costs of agricultural limits and
expenses caused by un-predictable weather makes a project like INDRA
generationally affordable. I must also add that our gravity
powered technologies, which have been stymied up to this point due
to unfair unfavorable comparisons to other forms of clean energy,
can provide much of the power requirements at very low costs once
they are brought to industrial production specifications.
Finally the question of support
is a fair one, and as yet not fully resolved. However, this is day
one of a publicity campaign, by introducing the project to activists
like yourself, and it alone has consumed almost my entire day, which
is not supportable in the long term. I envision the establishment
of a paid staff to do the grassroots promotion that will be
necessary to begin and maintain a public conversation about the
potentials of such an undertaking...one jurisdiction at a time.
The project would also fund university research programs to move the
basic science forward, and compete for grant research dollars to
that same end. That is to say...so if you want to send a check...I
won't be taking a trip to Jamaica with it...unless there is a chance
to promote the INDRA project. LOL. Also I might add that this
nascent venture is like a newborn child in that it needs of course
financial support, but more importantly it needs a village of
mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles and cousins to guide it...keep it
from going wrong...teach it how to speak the language of its
culture, and most importantly to believe in its potential.
This is to say, that you telling
your friends about it is the most supportive thing that I could ask
of anyone today. I am willing and hope to move the project forward
with expense paid speaking engagements, and I'm working on a book
which this response will be a part of, if you will grant that
indulgence.
Once again thanks for your
response...and keep the questions coming.
Gravitational Systems, L.L.C.
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Hey Gare,
Firstly I want to say that you are preaching to the converted
when it comes to comparing construction costs with societal
costs. However, (ironically), society doesn't always see it
that way, and it's damn near impossible to get funding on the
scale you need it from the general public.
And even if you were to get a good public campaign going, there
would be hardly any investment in the project without firm,
verifiable and authentic research carried out by trustworthy
sources. Here I would recommend talking to the NCER (http://es.epa.gov/ncer/).
They can offer both authentic research and funding, but
applications have to be detailed and advanced. There are other
bodies that fund this kind of research like the UN University (http://www.unu.edu/env.html)
- although they seem to be researching similar issues at the
moment.
Either way, I think if you had the scientific facts behind you,
you would be able to create a big enough grassroots campaign
that this would reach international levels. However, I would
suggest some rebranding, as I have to say, John Q. Public would
not find his way through your website at the moment. Having all
that scientific knowledge is necessary and good, but I would
suggest having a simpler layout that summarizes and explains the
project in not so many words, and then go into the detail.
But I am interested in helping with this - it is the kind of
thing I think will be essential to our future. And I would be
very happy for you to use this conversation in any publication,
(although my office will want a copy before print, if that's
OK).
Best wishes,
Stefan
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The most direct implementation of your desired plan is simple. Send seawater into Death Valley. This will generate huge amounts of electrical power. At the same time evaporation of the transported water will provide increased rain East of the Valley. Paul ------------------------------------
Paul:
I'm heartened by the clear eyed
simplicity of your approach. I hope this means that INDRA has
touched your creative mind, and that you will help to start the
conversation.
I would like to use your
attributed comments on a FAQ page that we are building, please let
me know if you have any problem with this.
Once again thanks for your
insights, and feel free to contact me at any time.
Gare Henderson
Gravitational systems, L.L.C.
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Gare,
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Bjarne Andresen
Universitetsparken 5 phone +45-35320470 professor of physics DK-2100 Copenhagen Ø fax +45-35320460 Niels Bohr Institute Denmark e-mail andresen@fys.ku.dk University of Copenhagen |
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On 06/18/2008 09:57 AM,
Gravitational Systems.org wrote:
Dr. Andresen: I enjoyed your groups views in the Don't fight, adapt letter. I share many of the cautions about impetuous anti-global warming actions. It seems to me that certainty, is the most pernicious of human thought processes. I would greatly appreciate if you would find a moment to visit our still developing website INDRA Project <http://www.gravitationalsystems.org/INDRA and offer any advice or a non-attributed opinion of this nascent weather control project, which demonstrates the adaptability of humanity to weather change phenomena.. In abstract the plan is to encourage world governments to invest in clean energy driven primarily seawater dynamic evaporation channels across natural boundaries of elevation or distance, to effect long-term re-acclimation of desert regions through increases in average rainfall. The goals of the program are to give regional governments the power to tactically and strategically manage absolute humidity of their regions to affect enhanced biodiversity, increases in arable land, and mitigate the significant hydrological imbalances which contribute to severe weather. Your comments, no matter how brief would be greatly appreciated, and will remain confidential if that is your wish. Thank you in advance for your indulgence. Gare Henderson, ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dear
Gare Henderson,
Dr. Andresen:
Thank you for your response and
your conditioned support. I appreciate your concerns, and will use
such reasoned and frank analysis as fuel to move the project towards
the necessary levels of detail and acceptance.
Of course INDRA projects are
huge and broad in scale. However, I envision a republican
implementation, where smaller regional authorities take decisions,
supported by national and international bodies and commercial
interests.
However, the major point that I
would like to make, is that the INDRA design differs from my
understanding of the projects that you mentioned, in that it is
focused upon transit evaporation as the primary method of achieving
the projects goals. The INDRA transit channels, will be
constructed to optimize both passive solar evaporation, and
transpiration via an extensive riparian zone. Channels will be
shallow, and dynamically controlled, in that the flows can be
redirected to pipelines when regional evaporation is not
desirable. While the riparian zones, which will stretch for miles
along side the open channels, will feature salt tolerant plants,
that will absorb sunlight, CO2, and desalinate
a significant portion of the salt water. This when combined with
salt marshes, and the objective of controlling regional rainfall, as
opposed to the delivery of water to some distant point, make the
INDRA design far superior to historical irrigation plans.
The major challenges
are technical, administrative, and cultural. Public enthusiasm,
which can only come from a general acceptance of the practicality of
the plan. The truth is what you believe. Technical challenges,
are primarily energy related, which was the impetus for my
involvement in the project. Our gravitational energy based systems
can meet the projects' energy requirements, in combination with
other clean energy methods, and these projects will serve to spark
interest and the critical R&D funding that is needed to bring
gravitational energy from concept to practical implementations.
The time is right for INDRA
projects, for a number of reasons. The public concern for climate
change and biodiversity losses, means that tremendous funding is
becoming available for large scale projects which address these
issues. While the nascent carbon trading industry is in need of
projects that not only stem the tide of carbon imbalance, but also
perform a remedial function. The INDRA project, is evolving to meet
these markets and concerns.
Finally, I glean some measure of
acquiesce in your response, as a noted physicist and climate change
expert, to the potential of INDRA designs. I will post our
dialogue in our feedback section, and if you have no objection your
name and affiliations will be visible.
Thank you
Gare Henderson
Dear Gare Henderson, |
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